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fides et libertas ;))) (10/10/14 18:27:38)
    >> you tend to argue ad hominem, i will surely not follow you here.

    i fail to see where i had done so. please clue me in. im a little thick.

    >> The list of the three letters agencies was there to show up only the number of organisations, beeing concerned about our security.

    security. what is that? is it anything like peace or like freedom?

    >> And, thanks to IS, they are doing a big show, how good they work and what they know:

    you wont get any argument about these agencies from me. they mostly are redundant and quite silly. not all of them though, and not all their methods are breaching the sacred covenant between citizen and state.

    >> 400 Salafists from .de in syria fighting,25% with whatever kind of graduation,6% with a training, 12% with a job, in a low-pay sector of course.
    >> That's all? The reason to monitor all of our communication? If you see videos of those (including the .de converted), you may guess this in some seconds. They're unable to a form simple, short entence.

    sentence you mean. true, but they sure can chop. and so did al-qaeda. and so did a few other thugs not too long ago that managed to take over and destroy an entire country, their own country amongst "a few others".
    but lets not be nitpickers here...
    isis or is or whatever their name is, it has nothing to do with you or me dom. its a internal arab/islamic affair which they will have to deal with soon or later.
    still, as a hopeless nitpicker, i cant help but notice... seems strange to me that you are more bothered by their skills than by the fact that they are your citizens.
    this is the bit about responsibility (and freedom) thats slightly worries me.
    the context is the (sovereign)state, not the government (and its [misuse of] executive branches). i did not mention etienne marcel simply to impress.
    treason, imvho of course, is a crime against the state (and lets not even mention rechtsstaat and the various abuses of it)
    let me be more clear: when was it you started fearing your own government more than being worried by the condition of your own state?
    imo, more worrying is the fact that people seem to have forgotten that such an intangible thing as a state actually exists and represents something.
    but its no wonder in this cynical day and age when nothing has any real value.

    this link or mirrored here

    In Syria, some activists opened a Facebook page called “I’m a Muslim and I oppose IS.” Some Muslim communities in the Western world, meanwhile, launched a campaign declaring that Islamic State does not represent them. They organized an anti-hate day in Germany, a march in Norway, a Twitter campaign in England – all under the slogan “Not in my name.”

    why would any muslim feel the need to apologize?
    did anyone give him any reason to feel like dreyfus?
    did anyone made them feel marginalized?
    did anyone ask them to re-pledge their allegiance to the state on account of their religion?
    strange, i thought europe was beyond that step.

    This campaign was subject to a lot of criticism. Some Muslims said they don’t feel the need to apologize to the Western world, which believes IS represents Islam or Muslim society. It’s the Western world’s problem if that’s the way it views us, they argued, not ours.

    western world? what do they mean? that they arent part of the western world? but they are citizens of these respective countries are they not?
    in such case maybe a re-pledge is not a bad idea...

    In contrast, others claimed the slogan “Not in my name” shirks responsibility. How can we avoid responsibility, asked these critics, while living in a society that enables violence against women and persecutes sexual minorities, and in which the concept of “manhood” is so twisted as to permit “honor killings” of women? The phenomenon of IS is the extension of such concepts, they claimed.

    aha! there you go! there are the real citizens!
    civics and identity. eh. a good quote here. (you have this page in german too for easy reading but i bet you know this already)
    we need more lime trees dom. a bigger diversity of trees anyway.
    what we dont need is more non kosher citizens. the kind that see the state that granted them citizenship as something temporary to which they dont belong while sucking it dry.
    or the kind that were born citizens and take it so much for granted that it becomes meaningless (a footnote that anyone barely reads).
    where are the proud trees?


    so your government finally decided to ban the black flag? yeah, thats showing them.
    although, its good that they finally got the point. the bit about it being unconstitutional/incompatible/treason. took them long enough.
    im not sure they were considering the limits of freedom of expression here. i think that it was more about if they should rock the boat or not.
    thats my impression.

    but i got seriously sidetracked here. lets back up a little...


    where did it all start? with me trolling e's leg. a little harmless fun, or so i thought. apparently i managed to poke my own eye out.

    e said something
    the context of which is: "the film violated section 142 of the norwegian constitution, which declares that religious and minority groups should not be subjected to insult."
    (btw, a few other interesting snippets on the same page)
    straight out of fahrenheit no? funny constitution...
    to which i trolled e's leg, as i usually like to do, focusing on the censorship/freedom part.(for example: "i hear its not really a place but just a concept." <-much like the state)
    e seemed to have understood my comments very well since he informed me that it was 40 years ago so its irrelevant. however they just have a few places that girls are afraid to set foot in for some reason or the other. but itll all be ok as soon as the girlies manage to hump them beardos. otherwize, its all peaceful.
    oh boy! norwegians with a sense of humor.
    then again, i live in an apartheid state so what do i know.
    why not use 135a on this guy - https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ByeoUhBCMAAFtQJ.jpg
    but wait, i digress again.
    like i said, norwegian humor i guess.
    at which point i tried to engage his own definition of peace as exposed on this board since i came to it.
    to no avail.
    seems like i am speaking a different language indeed.
    ah, the irony.
    history is of little importance if at all, our technological advancements are mostly useless, and peace is of utmost importance so we can all tend to our potatoes.
    and freedom? freedom is overrated of course. what we need is peace of mind, a few potatoes, and a little soma to boot. just enough dosage to make us all potatoE eating zombies.
    no wonder there are black flags across europe when people are actively ashamed of what they are and on top of that ignore their own history.

    enough spoon-feeding? oh sorry, thats ad hominem. enough clarifications? i sure hope so.

    >> So, to close the theme, i can't see, what army & angencies in .de do for peace & freedom

    well im sure they are doing something. or else the cia wouldnt "accidentally" eavesdrop on them...
    hehe, you reminded me of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sandbaggers


    there is no such thing as "peace & freedom" imvho. you obviously missed that part in my previous posts.
    imo, there is only freedom, the nature of which most people get wrong.
    freedom comes with responsibility (such as in clarisse case ;) and lets not forget how bradbury treats "peace" in his book)
    want my version of peace? ok... (but be sure not to miss the irony though, since im sure you missed it throughout this thread and mostly throughout this post)
    when i hear peace, i hear complacency, conformity. (FOLLOWERS: Yes, we are all different! - DENNIS: I'm not. - ARTHUR: Shhhh.)
    i hear a wall being built to stop bullets and assassins so e can move in with me. lots of concrete that, someone someday, will have to recycle. literally and metaphorically.
    then, when the wall is complete, i feel the E-amnesia arrive, my mind clouded, my vision blurred, my thinking impaired...
    i hear a monotonous chorus of angels that sing the same psalm ad infinitum ad nauseam like bad elevator music, and the elevators never gonna stop.
    my god!
    but then i hear a whisper... "Act as you must act. I myself am never without any action."
    myeah, "us southerners" are weird that way...

    like i said, be well. and take care. sadly, your place is turning out to be much more dangerous then mine.

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fides et libertas ;)))