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Punishments (15/10/16 11:16:12) Reply
    Still quite a few punishments are unnecessarily cruel, measured against the crime or stupidity leading towards it. The result is that people are unnecessarily injured, sometimes beyond repair. Those pressing for severe punishment conveniently forget about the cost to society of wrecking people. So long-term economic thinking could have a place. How can society and victims have payback from the damage caused by criminals? How can failed students still be useful to society and themselves? How can we decrease or minimise or control the societal damage caused by alcohol and illegal drugs - without resorting to jail terms on par with those given for murder?

    I am not talking of those countries where slave labour in prisons is a lucrative industry for the prison owners.
e

Re: Punishments (15/10/16 13:11:19) Reply
    It is really about preserving resources. We recycle metals, plastics, glass, cellulose fibers. We try to save energy by reducing waste - isolating houses, wearing clothes indoors. The term "human resources" has been stolen and destroyed by the money people. If we take back the term, we can build a philosophy for recycling people too.

    Of course - those incorrigibles who maim and murder people or generally wreck their surroundings should be kept away from society, with the means necessary. But I cannot really believe than anyone wants to be poor and unhappy, even though their behaviour leads to just that. Sometimes guidance and mild force is enough to prevent it.
e

Re: Re: Punishments (03/11/16 20:19:30) Reply
    "We try to save energy by reducing waste"
    I fear we are only another form of energy, trying to maxamise its enthalpy, and not play part of the unavoidable entropy. We don't _know_ better since we are just little beings.

    "human resources"... reminds me of a book I read "the toolmakers koan"

    "with the means necessary":
    I'm not so sure we're good enough at fixing things yet... I'm a fond believer in "natural law", by that I mean: what happens without _our_ interference.
    These ppl are amoung us as a consequence of everything we are... left alone without society or stucture or help what would become of these ppl?.

    It's a very comfortable stand point I'll admit, no responsibility etc.
    It would be nice, however, to see someone turn and fight the tide now and then, it makes life so much sweeter to see Lucifer yearn for a seat... just like in the old days.

    "Sometimes guidance and mild force is enough to prevent it."
    this would be a good example of the estremist "Hero" I mentioned above.

    I wonder how it _really_ works though, is it pride or fear or a mixture of both... or simple "maddness" that prevents a homeless person from asking for a space away from the winters cold... even when they're 99.99% sure that they don't have to give it back. (I live in italy and saw a Iene transmisson recently that drew up a similar scene, what a beautifull pure soul)

    There's a strange, sad aspect to human nature that makes me think that Darwin should have looked closer to links concerning Lemmings, the great apes are far more helpful socially.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GorgFtCqPEs
Moonman

Re: Re: Re: Punishments (04/11/16 19:08:06) Reply
    Great powers are waging wars against terrorism, against drugs, against cancer, against separatism, against infidels - against almost everything dangerous or disagreeable. The costs are high; return of investment isn't that much.

    If war is the answer - what is the real question? Maybe it's as simple as "follow the money" - look at who makes a living from those wars.

    Tt may have been Kapuściński

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ryszard_Kapu%C5%9Bci%C5%84ski

    who stated Herodotus' Law: There is always something in history that will give you a pretext for an act of revenge. If the two sides are like-minded, there will be a wheel of venge and revenge and re-revenge and re-re-revenge - ad infinitum. Someone makes money, but the majorities are suffering or losing opportunities.

    So it is better to stop those wars and let honest people work.
e

Re: Re: Re: Punishments (04/11/16 19:13:58) Reply
    It may be about building of trust.
    In my country we are lucky enough to be able to trust the police. Our immigrants are not used to be able to talk sensibly with the police. We have some star police officers who spend much time talking with people to keep down aggression. Criminal activity is to be taken care of the police and the courts. You are not allowed to take justice in your own hands. By this the wheel of revenge can be broken.

    In our country this has taken some 1000 years to obtain, and our immigrants have a very steep learning curve. It's Friday, so it's time for a toast to the good cops.
e

cops (07/11/16 20:26:36) Reply
    Yep. And the same is true of the CPS ( Child Protection Service ) we were talking the other day. Whole lots of nations aren't used to trust anything the government/offices do the same they can't trust the(ir) police. And the same there are a lots of nations where if you are think yourself an honest person you simply don't choose any governmental profession. For one it won't pay enough, so if you go there you hope to make a living by being corrupt and a bully - and you need to be too stupid to make a proper living out of your abilities or talent ( obviously a stupid corrupt bully ). Steep learning curve? I was pretty surprised in some countries abroad how DISARMINGLY POLITE can police/army even pub bouncers could be. Better than kung-fu let me tell you. Especially with me having a mirrorlike quick temper ( few times I was on the verge of attacking officials after they began rude ).
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