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Empedocles (07/02/17 10:55:17) Reply
    Empedocles, who lived very long ago in Greece, believed that the world was made up of four substances, all mixed up to form all the things.
    Strife was the force that separeted them; Love mixed them again.
    Pretty much like the internet of our moden days, don't you think?
Allan

Re: Empedocles (07/02/17 21:59:34) Reply
    It is after all a collection of knowledge, a pour representation of what the human mind can achieve. It knows no form, it is a conscious reflection of yourself, you make of it what you want and when you finally give up your perceived form someone else well pick up where you left off.

    It is appreciation, an extension of a thought that you had on a chilled Sunday morning while sipping some coffee, a constent reminder that what you currently know is a continuation of what you knew yesterday, last month, last year or better yet last millennium

    "the world was made up of four substances"

    Maybe if you understand them you might be able to see the world as he saw it, but then again why would you want to....

    d
d

Made up of four substances (13/02/17 10:29:38) Reply
    I agree. They didn't have the internet in his age, but they understood better the four substances.
    Why would we want to see the world as he did? Perhaps because it's a world in its most original form, I mean it's the raw materials there, without all the (mis)conceptions that ages of (propaganda? advertizements?) have added to it.
    Anyway it is much more fun.
    Imo.
Allan

Re: Made up of four substances (15/02/17 09:10:57) Reply
    When political and economic forces persuade the masses that a non-educated gut feeling or the fun of a false statement is just as relevant as a piece of fact, then those forces will be able to wipe out the age of reason within a generation or two. It is the USA committing intellectual suicide.

    Four elements indeed. It is 92+ (not to mention the isotopes), and their compounds, and their processes, and the energy.

    Trumpism, Erdoganism, Brexism, Putinism: Gifted people regressing into Greek philosophy. Religion and light-weight emotionality as the driving forces in politics: Dark ages are ahead.
e

I was just kidding, man! (21/02/17 10:10:51) Reply
    I know there are quite a lot, actinides included, I was just making a little fun.
    Did you know that some authors considered Empedocles as predecessor of quantum physics?
    No way intellectual suicide: go ask Mr. Stephen Hawkings :-)
    You seem too sad to me today, btw.
Allan

Re: I was just kidding, man! (21/02/17 11:29:42) Reply
    Sorry. I'm just an old man who does not need or wish to be taken seriously.

    Experimental science is having a hard time nowadays. It takes too long and costs too much money. Speculations are much cheaper and more rewarding, specially if there is political and religious support.
e

hey, serious old man (24/02/17 08:03:05) Reply
    your words bug me. or maybe the perceived tone of your post.

    https://www.ted.com/talks/sarah_parcak_help_discover_ancient_ruins_before_it_s_too_late#t-224826

    humans will be humans. that didnt change for thousand of years...
    we need not concern ourselves with speculations, religion and politics.
    we need to use the above and concentrate on one block at a time with precise bureaucratic efficiency.
    yes, a few oxymorons here, but i have my days of cautious optimism.
    besides, i have seen a few specs of light in the darkness recently...

    as a side note, your thoughts on quantum biology?
relapso

Re: hey, serious old man (25/02/17 18:03:24) Reply
    I see it as a power struggle where I am on the losing side and have been for quite some years.

    Inventions are not made by "the people" or by politically appointed committees or by order. Truths defined by politicians or administrators may perform poorly when tested in the field, but may still be enforced. Trumped through, as you might say these days.

    I saw through my career, now successfully terminated by me, that there has been a strong decrease in the ability of planning and performing experimental work. I think this has been a deliberate process because it has increased the power of politics and decreased the power of rationality. Science rating has been reduced to countable publications and press releases. Hyping of irrelevant scientific findings is the most common method of cheating in science. Nobody gets caught for that.

    So lay off the philosophy and let people spend time reading science and spending time in the field and in well-equipped labs (now considered too expensive even though basic equipment is cheaper than ever).
e

Vicious circle (26/02/17 11:07:26) Reply
    There is no quick fix that will strengthen the standing of real science and dissemination of the ability of thinking along scientific lines. Realistically speaking this will be for a minority, not for the majority. One obstacle is that the press and media are dominated by people who have been shying away from science and into the simple world of emotions and gut feelings based on simple and isolated, and sometimes even distorted, facts. A counterweight against this will have to start in the teaching of children. It is probably impossible to strengthen the sciences if the teachers are recruited from students who also have been shying away from learning mathematics, science and technology.

    Maybe it all boils down to laziness?
e

So, what say ye, Ritz? (n/t) (26/02/17 11:08:06) Reply
e

Re: Vicious circle (26/02/17 18:14:58) Reply
    Billions of people belong to belief systems based on the premise that there is a god who created himself out of nothing, and who afterwards created Cosmos including Earth and the biosphere out of nothing. This idea is taught in schools and universities and supported by societies. Historically, and even today, this belief system has been supported by societies, and diverging beliefs have been punished by excommunication. threats of violence in this and the next world, and real imprisonment, torture and death. To some significant degree this still happens. So when we discuss the problems of science, religion in its various forms, is the elephant in the room. Everybody sees it, but almost nobody talks about it.

    Scientific work in religion is mostly cheap. Books will do. You don't need a single mass spectrometer in an entire faculty of theology. (But CERN is well financed, and they did find the God particle, didn't they?)
e

philosophy, a dead "art" (26/02/17 17:35:44) Reply
    i think you miss the point of my post and are entrenched in your worldview.
    technocrats are the worst managers imo.
    not to mention, terrible poets.
    but maybe its just me reading you wrong...

    i will shut up now.
    thank you for your answer.
relapso

Re: philosophy, a dead "art" (27/02/17 06:40:04) Reply
    My impression (I have not performed a comprehensive scientific study) is that the philosophers fail quite often when they pretend to connect philosophy and science. They are simply too weak on the science. The science is increasingly complex so that even scientists within a field cannot cope with the complexity. The time when being learned was sufficient for updated (state-of-the-art) philosophy has been over for a long time.

    Now there is a POTUS who is inaccurate about facts. There are others - and they are believed because the press, who should be policing such behaviour, is part of the inaccuracy process.

    The recent terror in Sweden - as reported by POTUS? It just didn't happen. That's news for the POTUS, and a misunderstanding or fabrication for others.

    So there is a need for the opposition to be accurate and reliable with facts. It could mean presentation of all the data for those interested, instead of cherrypicking of sensational or convenient single events. IMHO philosophy should be a help to live in the modern world - looking at today and looking forward - disconnected from special interests.
e

sorry (03/03/17 20:06:20) Reply
    your rant went over my head
    im just an old prick still listening to punk
    atari teenage riot
relapso

apparently, life ended for me somewhere in 2003. (n/t) (03/03/17 20:09:54) Reply
relapso

Re: Re: philosophy, a dead "art" (11/06/17 17:27:03) Reply
    any update on that?
relapso

Re: Re: Re: philosophy, a dead "art" (13/06/17 21:29:31) Reply
    It's a matter of background and experience and personal biases. The discipline itself has drifted. In the early and simpler times philosophy and science could be one and the same. Now philosophy IMHO has little or nothing to do with science or the real world. But science in its turn seems to be drifting away from being about the real world because. The time from a fundamental discovery to technological maturity is getting shorter, and those who remain in the empty fields have their careers and incomes to think about. Time to hire journalists; public relations are helpful in the grant application process.

    So even science is getting closer to death.

    Sorry - it wasn't a reply to your question.
e

true (11/08/17 19:53:05) Reply
    you did not answer my question.
    what was my question again?
    hm... nvm.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyu7v7nWzfo

    i strongly disagree with your views on philosophy (and science, werent they the same?)
    perhaps you had far too greater expectations.

    i could elaborate, but ill stop at that.
relapso

Re: Empedocles (08/02/17 22:23:18) Reply
    For all purposes, possibly with the exception of poetry, the idea of four elements is useless. A few hundred years of science has done a lot for that. Even the educational policies of Donald Trump will not be sufficient for wiping away that science - even if he manages to keep in office for those four years.

    Ancient Greek philosophy: Some of it was entertaining to read, but I have wasted far much time on that useless stuff. They should have given us Demokrit and Herodot instead of Empedokles, Protagoras and Socrates. Well, we did get Archimedes and Pythagoras, which was good.
e

Isaak (Isaac) Babel (10/02/17 18:51:29) Reply
    I read a sentence or so about him the other day and looked him up today.

    You might wish to do the same.
e

Re: Empedocles (05/07/17 04:13:55) Reply
    what's old is new again

    gravity, the strong nuclear force, the electromagnetic force and the weak nuclear force are what make up everything.

    I've thought that love could be quantum entanglement, sharing merging and mingling wavefronts of unity, then even ever after at a distance forever connected.

    we're all just vibrations within vibrations - all that ever was all that will ever be.

    love is all you need.

    love
forseti

Re: Re: Empedocles (21/07/17 22:35:31) Reply
    Never mind the physicists. Just let me keep the love.

    And expand it.
e


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