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Re: Re: Chernivtsi  (20/06/22 16:25:25)
    i must admit the Quisling bit was a little boring at first, but i must admit i wasnt aware of how deep was hes involvement.
    thank you. i will pursue this further perhaps.

    >> or the naked numbers which are incomprehensible (to me, at least, but less incomprehensible now that I have become so old).

    allow me just a tangential and unneeded remark, i simply need to get this off my chest.
    speaking from my gut of course, it _should_ remain incomprehensible. any _systematic_ killing of humans by other humans should (not just the holocaust)
    and that should not be measured by the success of such endeavor, but by the _intent_ behind it.
    then again, i never excelled at any conformity test (remember asch?)

    once, someone on this forum tried to equate the nazi crimes with a crime of passion. worst offense ever to humanity at large imo.
    i can understand a crime of passion. losing your head in the heat of the moment etc...
    i cannot and will never accept the so called banality of planning the _systematic_(industrial even) execution of entire populations.
    its unthinkable to me. but sadly it can be studied and understood. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Third_Wave_(experiment)
    then why isnt it a basic requirement to tech this in school? how do we prevent the next "event"?
    pardon my rant.

    >>One key element in this - IMO - is the willingness to refrain from having an emotional relation to history.
    >>History happened, but most if not all people involved are now dead, and we need to shake it off, register it, learn from it, make plans to prevent repetition.
    >>Only then can we make the world of today a good one for the living.

    i agree. as well as to other things you wrote in this thread, but...
    sometimes, history has a certain continuity that persists no matter how much you try to put things in perspective/behind.

    let me be brief for now, since this is a far more complex issue than it seems and probably requires more than one post and quite some time.

    further expanding on my reservation as to certain social and political forces in ukraine and who pules the strings.

    1) a far fetched scenario to illustrate my point.

    can we be certain that supplying ukraine with arms is wise?
    i mean the wind may change, more nationalistic winds may blow...
    "the west" has a track record of shooting itself in the foot by arming "freedom fighters" against... well, against russia.
    what are the steps taken by us to ensure the right wind keeps blowing in ukraine? besides supplying arms and humanitarian aid. education, narrative etc...
    just trying to learn from past mistakes ;)

    2) if youll dig into the history and present situation of the republic of moldova, you are bound to see the continuity and willingness for a reunion with romania.

    essentially, this is not just history, the present situation is that the two people are one (or at least _view themselves_ as one) (https://eurovisionworld.com/eurovision/2022/moldova <- read the english lyrics carefully! i love them!)
    my opinion? in principle, im all for unification. most my family is from... lets call it "the greater moldavia area" or principality if you will (more on this later when ill have some spare time)
    but there is a catch.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_Romania_Party
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_Romania

    sounds like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_Israel

    :D

    i refuse to align myself with nationalistic lunatics.

    and yet, the point remains valid. moldova and romania ARE the same people separated by the forces that be.
    otoh, over nationalistic bullshit tends to annoy me almost as good old adolf.
    i have an intrinsic fear of nationalism (milan kundera quote, you should know it - fists in the air etc...)
    and again, otoh, there is a present situation here to address as well as a historical injustice.

    enough for now.
    oh my, im a messy writer.
    it would have been better if i waited for a better moment to write this more coherently.
jm


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Re: Re: Chernivtsi